Why Did You Buy an EV?
-
Deleted User 3629
Their is no easy answer to this - EV tech should have continued alongside ICE tech from the beginning, but ICE was seen as revolutionary simple - but don't be fooled into thinking ICE is bad and EV is good - getting the raw materials to make the batteries is in my view far from eco-friendly - we are where we are but today's EV tech, and again only my opinion, is too rushed and flawed.
I didn't buy an EV for the following reasons:
1. I often need to drive single journeys over 300 miles and don't want to stop.
2. Battery technology is in its infancy and will undergo at least 2 major step changes over the next 5-10 years thus reducing current EV second hand values.
3. Batteries reduce charge holding capacity over a relatively short period of time and are hugely expensive to replace, also reducing resale prices.
4. Lithium mining has some questionable ethics.
5. Also questionable are the green credentials of EV cars in terms of energy and carbon miles in the production of the batteries and vehicles. Additionally, the electricity is still largely being produced by burning fossil fuels in this country.
6. The charging network is still very limited.
Once the above are fixed I might consider one. Obviously I'm not holding my breath.
1. I often need to drive single journeys over 300 miles and don't want to stop.
2. Battery technology is in its infancy and will undergo at least 2 major step changes over the next 5-10 years thus reducing current EV second hand values.
3. Batteries reduce charge holding capacity over a relatively short period of time and are hugely expensive to replace, also reducing resale prices.
4. Lithium mining has some questionable ethics.
5. Also questionable are the green credentials of EV cars in terms of energy and carbon miles in the production of the batteries and vehicles. Additionally, the electricity is still largely being produced by burning fossil fuels in this country.
6. The charging network is still very limited.
Once the above are fixed I might consider one. Obviously I'm not holding my breath.
Obviously EVs are not for everybody yet. But I do think there needs to be a bit more balance and nuance in the discussion around EVs. As in many things, discussion frequently revolves around the negatives of EVs without looking at the positives of EVs and the negatives of ICE. While the technology is obviously evolving, I think we tend to overestimate the rate of likely change. We really don't know what second hand values are going to be, but for those who treat their cars as long-term transportation rather than short-term financial products (which is how manufacturers would like us to think about them), depreciation is not that much of an issue, and the car is not going to just stop working in a few years. There is a lot of evidence to show that worries about significantly reduced capacity are not bearing fruit. There are obviously issues around mining the minerals required for batteries, but there are also rather significant issues around pumping up fossil fuels and burning them. Study after study has shown that over the lifetime of EVs, they are greener than ICE. The green credentials of EVs are, as pointed out, partly dependent upon how the electricity that goes into EVs is generated. But the renewable/non-renewable balance is not static. Rather, it is changing towards renewables at an increasing rate. Last year Scotland produced pretty much all of its domestic electricity needs from renewables. So in this sense, even current EVs are likely to get greener. This article that looks at a report from Volvo - and the critiques of that report - makes for interesting reading:
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/01/21/un ... nk-claims/
Charging is an issue, but the network is expanding all the time. It is still fragmented, but it will be a case of evolution rather than all of a sudden being fixed. And most people most of the time will charge at home, with the charging network being relevant more for longer journeys. A quick look at ZapMap indicates that it is much more developed in England than up here in Scotland, although obviously not spread evenly.
So overall, I think the arguments about EVs may be complicated, but not nearly as black and white as frequently portrayed. The one thing that it is black and white is the climate emergency and the necessity to reduce burning fossil fuels as quickly as we can. EVs are a part of addressing this.
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/01/21/un ... nk-claims/
Charging is an issue, but the network is expanding all the time. It is still fragmented, but it will be a case of evolution rather than all of a sudden being fixed. And most people most of the time will charge at home, with the charging network being relevant more for longer journeys. A quick look at ZapMap indicates that it is much more developed in England than up here in Scotland, although obviously not spread evenly.
So overall, I think the arguments about EVs may be complicated, but not nearly as black and white as frequently portrayed. The one thing that it is black and white is the climate emergency and the necessity to reduce burning fossil fuels as quickly as we can. EVs are a part of addressing this.
Personally I have nothing against BEVs, which I suspect will be replaced by a fuel cell of some description once investment in BEVs has been suitability recouped by its investors.
But as far as BEVs positively impacting Climate Change - I'm doubtful. The current UK carbon emissions is around 1.1% of the global total. So until we can convince China, Asia and emerging nations to abandon their goal of having a Western Lifestyle I think we're gonna struggle.
Perhaps better short term to target airline cargo, such as cut flowers and out of season fruit and veg, traveling around the globe and give us a longer adjustment period for the ICE?
Could you imagine the outcry when Simeon couldn't purchase his Advocado from Waitrose though!
But as far as BEVs positively impacting Climate Change - I'm doubtful. The current UK carbon emissions is around 1.1% of the global total. So until we can convince China, Asia and emerging nations to abandon their goal of having a Western Lifestyle I think we're gonna struggle.
Perhaps better short term to target airline cargo, such as cut flowers and out of season fruit and veg, traveling around the globe and give us a longer adjustment period for the ICE?
Could you imagine the outcry when Simeon couldn't purchase his Advocado from Waitrose though!
XC40 MY24 B4 Ultimate Dark, Black Leather, Crystal White, 20" Rims
Lincolnshire England.
Lincolnshire England.
-
Deleted User 3629
@qrt31. Their is little doubt that ICE is now old school and EV's, and its continued development, is new school - but ICE has had its development run for a 100+ years and today's ICE tech is the very best and cleanest of the bunch, whereas, and in contrast, the EV's are very much at their embryo stage - and for many, its just far too soon, but do feel free to be one of the pioneers 
.
.There seems to be an assumption that until we can do everything all at once, and until others also fall in line, it is not worth doing anything. I do not believe that to be the case. And while there is still a massive amount to do, there is a lot more going on in other parts of the world. India and China, among others, are still problematic, but I do not think it is completely black and white. And just because others are not doing their part, this does not mean that we do not have an obligation to consider what we in one of the richest countries in the world can do.
With regard to development of the technology, yes there is a long way to go, but 2022 is by no means year zero in this regard, and if people were a bit more realistic about what they actually need from a car, I think many more - but obviously not everybody at this point - would find that an EV might work fine for them. And to be honest, while ICE technology has gotten better, I certainly would not describe ICE cars as clean - certainly not the ones discussed in this forum. When I decided to move up from my A3 to a small SUV like the XC40, I realized quite quickly this would entail a very significant increase in emissions - an increase I could not justify to myself.
With regard to development of the technology, yes there is a long way to go, but 2022 is by no means year zero in this regard, and if people were a bit more realistic about what they actually need from a car, I think many more - but obviously not everybody at this point - would find that an EV might work fine for them. And to be honest, while ICE technology has gotten better, I certainly would not describe ICE cars as clean - certainly not the ones discussed in this forum. When I decided to move up from my A3 to a small SUV like the XC40, I realized quite quickly this would entail a very significant increase in emissions - an increase I could not justify to myself.
-
Deleted User 3629
No one is, or would, claim that ICE are clean, equally no one can deny the modern ICE is cleaner than ever. People are cleaver, and they are also very realistic within realms of their own circumstances - perhaps most don't wish to, or just can't afford the outrageous premium in cost to acquire an EV - then there is the nightmare scenario of battery replacement costs for secondhand owners when they fail, as today's batteries often do, writing-off their purchase. Your stance is admirable, but for most it is far too soon and far too unpredictable to follow your lead. When EV's are much lower in price, when EV charging is quick and accessible, when the range of EV's are much greater and when replacing the spent/ failed fuel cell is easy and sensibly priced - feel sure many more will sing your tune, until then you will just have to accept EV's are not (yet) a viable alternative for many.
I of course accept that EVs are not right for everybody yet, although I think some of the negatives discussed require a bit more nuance. Regarding the premium, the difference between even a top of the line XC40 ICE and the P8 is undoubtedly significant and almost put me off (I paid far more than I ever thought I would pay for a car), but if one does any type of decent mileage, the reduction in running costs, lack of road tax, free insurance for 3 years, etc. all combine to make the difference much less significant, and potentially even positive in the long run. But obviously everybody's situation is different. But I do think it is incumbent on everybody to at least think about what individual changes they can make to address the climate crisis, even if the answer isn't the same for everybody.
As yet I've not had a response from any BEV owners as to how they manage frequent Long Haul journeys and what issues they do/don't encounter. Given the volume of BEVs sold of late I'm surprised.
XC40 MY24 B4 Ultimate Dark, Black Leather, Crystal White, 20" Rims
Lincolnshire England.
Lincolnshire England.
