B4/B5 'mild hybrids'; why?

[DanishPastry]

Looks like if I want to buy a new larger-engined XC40, I'm stuck with the B5 engine, not a T5.

I've read everything I can find on 'mild hybrid' and also compared the Volvo stats on the XC40 T5 vs. B5.

I am confused.

All the reviews on 'mild hybrid' I can find say it is no more than an enhanced Start/Stop, and mostly for marketing/green-washing. Is that unfair?

The strange thing is that the CO2 figures from Volvo show the B5 (and the B4) are slightly worse than their T5/T4 predecessors. So what's the point?

What is clear is that it's a brand new and additional layer of complexity, both mechanical and electrical to the car. Surely that must decrease reliability?

Sort of thinking MY2021 is not the time to buy. Better with a 2020 T5, or wait until they've ironed out the (inevitable) bugs in the B5?
I never buy version 1.0 of anything! And the same applies to the XC40 P8, which I'd love, apart from the price and the newness.

Mark

[RichardXC]

Looks like if I want to buy a new larger-engined XC40, I'm stuck with the B5 engine, not a T5.

I've read everything I can find on 'mild hybrid' and also compared the Volvo stats on the XC40 T5 vs. B5.

I am confused.

All the reviews on 'mild hybrid' I can find say it is no more than an enhanced Start/Stop, and mostly for marketing/green-washing. Is that unfair?

The strange thing is that the CO2 figures from Volvo show the B5 (and the B4) are slightly worse than their T5/T4 predecessors. So what's the point?

What is clear is that it's a brand new and additional layer of complexity, both mechanical and electrical to the car. Surely that must decrease reliability?

Sort of thinking MY2021 is not the time to buy. Better with a 2020 T5, or wait until they've ironed out the (inevitable) bugs in the B5?
I never buy version 1.0 of anything! And the same applies to the XC40 P8, which I'd love, apart from the price and the newness.

Mark

I agree with you that the B4/B5 "mlld hybrid" seems more about marketing than reality. However, having bought a B4 I can honestly say the difference in smoothness at the stop/start makes it all worthwhile.

I've driven a lot of Tx and Dx Volvo rental cars and always did my utmost to avoid the stop/start kicking in, and I did the same with my own Audi. The B4 has such a smooth transition from stop to start, I no longer worry about it.

[DanishPastry]

I hadn't thought about the interaction with Start/Stop - thanks for alerting me.

I've only had Start/Stop on a manual transmission where it isn't really an issue.

The big decision I have to make is between manual and auto (the long test drive will be on an automatic; I am a life-long manual driver).
The attraction to me of auto is a much more capable Adaptive Cruise Control and a choice of more engines.

In passing, it's quite impressive that ACC works at all on manual transmission. Audi don't even offer it on manuals.

Mark

[Silver Moose]

I have B5 in my V60 & it's smoother than a very smooth smooth thing. Early days to tell whether it helps economy much but I highly suspect it would for start/stop town drivers and/or rural drivers in the twisties in eco mode. I've kept off eco for running in but it seems to me (though I might be imagining it) that it uses regenerative braking in favour of coasting until the battery is full.

As for 1st gen....the PHEV maybe but, ten bob & a toffee apple says this is straight off the shelf at Bosch & well-proven:

https://www.bosch.com/stories/48v-hybrid-battery/

[Silver Moose]

P.S: As well as the ACC argument for autos, the remote start is a HUGE plus point for me. Would never be without it now.

[Rifleman]

I hadn't thought about the interaction with Start/Stop - thanks for alerting me.

I've only had Start/Stop on a manual transmission where it isn't really an issue.

The big decision I have to make is between manual and auto (the long test drive will be on an automatic; I am a life-long manual driver).
The attraction to me of auto is a much more capable Adaptive Cruise Control and a choice of more engines.

In passing, it's quite impressive that ACC works at all on manual transmission. Audi don't even offer it on manuals.

Mark

Strange that Audi don’t offer it, had it on my previous car (Skoda Superb L&K Manual). Same VAG group...

Like you I was a lifelong manual driver. I won’t be going back, automatic is so much easier and convenient. Only downside is the poor acceleration from a standing start, shed loads of revs but nothing to show for them, the XC40 holds on to low gears for too long...

[DanishPastry]

Strange that Audi don’t offer it, had it on my previous car (Skoda Superb L&K Manual). Same VAG group...

Like you I was a lifelong manual driver. I won’t be going back, automatic is so much easier and convenient. Only downside is the poor acceleration from a standing start, shed loads of revs but nothing to show for them, the XC40 holds on to low gears for too long...

Yes indeed. I'm also considering the Skoda Karoq, which does offer ACC on manual transmission, and the Audi Q3, which doesn't [shrug].

Personally, I don't find manual transmission an inconvenience. Many may disagree, but ISTM that almost all automatic transmissions (in their many variants) do a poorer job than a manual transmission.

Mark

[Rifleman]

Strange that Audi don’t offer it, had it on my previous car (Skoda Superb L&K Manual). Same VAG group...

Like you I was a lifelong manual driver. I won’t be going back, automatic is so much easier and convenient. Only downside is the poor acceleration from a standing start, shed loads of revs but nothing to show for them, the XC40 holds on to low gears for too long...

Yes indeed. I'm also considering the Skoda Karoq, which does offer ACC on manual transmission, and the Audi Q3, which doesn't [shrug].

Personally, I don't find manual transmission an inconvenience. Many may disagree, but ISTM that almost all automatic transmissions (in their many variants) do a poorer job than a manual transmission.

Mark

It was after using the ACC on the Superb that I realised that the combination of ACC+Auto gearbox would be a much better experience than putting up with the limitations of the ACC+manual gearbox. If the XC40 First Edition hadn’t gone on sale when it did, just when I’d decided to switch to automatic, I would have been in another Superb or maybe a Karoq right now.
At a gnats below the 40k tax threshold and because of (in my opinion) the better looks and colour combination of the XC40 I decided to jump ship. Wouldn’t do the same again with the current specs/prices of the XC40...

[SnoopyH]

I love my B5. The stop start sequence is smoooove and off the line grunt from a stopped engine is impressive. It’s hard to describe how different it feels to the T5 I tested as that was in Jan and I didn’t get the B5 until July.

The M Hybrid system can be found in a lot of cars now, VW, Audi, Kia, Ford etc all use a similar 48v system from the research i did. You can feel the starter motor generator cutting in and out, and hear it at times.

[DanishPastry]

Thanks for your thoughts SnoopyH.

True that M Hybrid is widespread... but it's still new and hence unproven/unrefined. Will it prove reliable after a few years... who knows.

I hear you that it makes Start/Stop smoother... slightly worrying that the old S/S wasn't already smooth.

Not heard many say they *love* their T3, so pleased to hear you *love* your B5. As a life-long performance car person, now needing a comfortable car for other reasons, the T5/B5 attracts me as it fits both roles.

Just have to decide if I want a MY19/20 T5 used, or go for a B5.