Confused about which xc40 to go for

All Volvo XC40 related discussions
johnd
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:58 am

Post by johnd »

Rifleman wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:14 pm Never thought of hybrids as a good idea.
Suppose it depends how much you rate economy vs the drawbacks of a full EV. I can see that if you have say a PHEV with home charging capability and have a commute of say 5 miles then it must be a substantial benefit to the short-run economy. Personally, I'm not too bothered provided I can hit a (genuine) minimum of 25mpg and max CO2 of eg 190. Anything better is nice to have but that's all and I'm personally more interested in performance.

That said, I'm fully sold on the potential benefits of a full EV, especially the performance and low-speed torque (though I think even a 4WD is typically going to be one motor per 'axle' not one per corner), but just not 100% convinced that the rapid charging network is quite there yet or that non-Tesla manufacturers have sufficient development/testing under their belt, choice of models, value proposition etc. But by the end of 2020 I fully expect to have an EV.

morrishey
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Location: Hampshire, UK

Post by morrishey »

There seems to be a fairly constant complaining on here about fuel efficiency of folks' XC40s.

My view, FWIW, is fairly simple. You have a relatively big engine putting out relatively big power to push a relatively big vehicle along the road at a relatively decent pace. If that's what you want out of your car, then the XC40 could be the car for you. If you want to drive something that gets you the most miles from each drop of fuel you put into it, then the XC40 (or any other fossil-fuelled SUV, or fairly decently performing car) is not the car you are looking for. Personally, I don't shop for cars based on mpg, I shop for them based on whether they meet my practical needs (and less practical desires :) ).

I went petrol this time due to the continued witch-hunt over diesels and the increasing trend of banning them from cities. While EVs carry such a price premium over their ICE powered equals, as well as a limited choice in the market, it wasn't something that worked for me this time around.

I get about 28-30mpg out of my T5, just over 300 miles between fills. It's less than the brochure quoted, but I've long learnt never to expect what a car manufacturer quotes as achievable economy!
XC40 T5 FE, Fusion Red, 20inch wheels.
Ordered 15th March. Delivery, originally June, delivered 26th October.
Salmonfisher
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:58 pm

Post by Salmonfisher »

Given the D4 is cleaner than many petrols why not go for that. The anti diesel lobby seems to be diminishing and was always based on hype and gut reaction to VW fraud rather than facts. Clean diesels are sure to be around for at least five years. I agree I would love a full electric car but only when I can get a 500 mile range (I often go to Scotland) and/or a quick charge rate (say not more than half an hour to keep me going) and a lot more public chargers outside London and the big cities. In France every village has to have two quick chargers or else be in process of installing them plus almost every hotel has them too. We are years behind.
hdasmith
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Location: UK

Post by hdasmith »

What sort of mileage do you do? I’m averaging 50mpg, and a few trips into the low 60s. Yesterday, NEC to outskirts of Leeds at 60.0mpg.

I’ve moved from the Outland PHEV, which was a great car, and I miss the electric drive, but we weren’t allowed PHEVs anymore because it was costing the company too much. Add in that Ecotricity are ripping off motorway users, and I’m getting about the same mpg in my D3 as my Outlander overall.
Inscription Pro | Pine Grey | Amber Leather | D3 FWD Manual
Ordered 11th May 2018
Delivered 6th November 2018
haf63
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:46 pm

Post by haf63 »

hdasmith wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:35 pm What sort of mileage do you do? I’m averaging 50mpg, and a few trips into the low 60s. Yesterday, NEC to outskirts of Leeds at 60.0mpg.

I’ve moved from the Outland PHEV, which was a great car, and I miss the electric drive, but we weren’t allowed PHEVs anymore because it was costing the company too much. Add in that Ecotricity are ripping off motorway users, and I’m getting about the same mpg in my D3 as my Outlander overall.
I do about 15k a year with around 2/3rds inner city. If 50mpg was reasonabaly achieveable then that woul dbe a gfood result. I have not looked at D3 - only D4/T4 so worth a look.

johnd makes a fair point in that there is always a betetr car 'coming soon' but I am likley to only pay 30-40k once for a car (nearing retirement) and there does seem to be momentum behind full electric. 250 mile range is enough for me and saloon car wise this will be possible this year but I just fancy a SUV as all perevious cars have been 3 series and equivalent germans.

Decision time wil be around end of the year so will keep 'all options open' - oops have dragged brexit into the conversation un-intentionally

Thanks for the advice so far
johnd
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:58 am

Post by johnd »

haf63 wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:49 am johnd makes a fair point in that there is always a betetr car 'coming soon' but I am likley to only pay 30-40k once for a car (nearing retirement) and there does seem to be momentum behind full electric. 250 mile range is enough for me and saloon car wise this will be possible this year but I just fancy a SUV as all perevious cars have been 3 series and equivalent germans.
I think that's fair enough if there's some specific reason for waiting for a particular new model that you know is pending to actually arrive. What I was thinking of was the more general situation which, like the way that summit of a hill is always just over the next visible rise, there is always one or more new models with an enticing spec just around the corner.

I do wonder though how well your ambitions for a full EV will be realised in the near future. Having done quite a lot of homework on EVs recently (prior to pulling out of an I-Pace purchase) I've started to understand that there's a whole new EV landscape to become familiar with - it's not just moving on to a new model that happens to be an EV, it's getting used to the whole EV way of thinking about things.

Just to take one example on range (and one of the reasons for my pulling out of the I-Pace) the max range figure was initially quoted by JLR as around 293 miles from memory on the NEDC test, which sounded fine - I could absolutely live with that. But then it was revised down to 243 miles WLTP and then the US EPA (I think widely regarded as the most meaningful EV testing standard) quoted a figure of 234 miles. However, that's not the whole story. While an average user might well be able to achieve 234 miles max range under favourable conditions, there are at least two reasons why that's not the complete picture:

One is that EVs seem to be more sensitive to driving conditions than fossil cars. So while 234 miles might well be doable in summer with careful driving on journeys where the maximum cruise speed doesn't exceed eg 55mph, it's a different story on motorways at 80mph especially in winter with wet roads (significantly increased tyre drag) and potentially head wind, when you might be lucky to get 180 miles range.

The second reason is that these range figures are what you can get by using 100% of the battery capacity. But in practice the maximum battery depletion that you might routinely use is 70-80%. Most drivers won't feel comfortable running the battery down below eg 10% in case the next charger isn't working. And then it's not generally recommended to charge the batteries routinely beyond 80-90% partly because it prolongs battery life and partly because the last 10-20% of charge takes much longer to achieve than the going from eg 10-80%. So for a fast wintertime motorway journey you might be looking to recharge every 140-150 miles, corresponding to an 80% to 10% battery depletion.

I'm sure battery technology is going to improve further though it's likely to be fairly slow going from here on - despite all the newspaper stories about breakthroughs in battery chemistry (eg solid state lithium batteries) there really doesn't seem to be anything much that's close to commercialisation on the necessary scale.

Personally I'm looking forwards to the XC40 full EV, but the one aspect I'm worried about is the tall blunt shape of the XC40, which can't do much for its aerodynamics. Full EVs need to slip through the air as cleanly as possible so as to maximise efficiency and range and I suspect that the XC40 will be rather compromised on that score. The Tesla Model Y (SUV version of the Model 3), as and when it appears, will probably be a good benchmark
haf63
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:46 pm

Post by haf63 »

You make some very good points johnd and i agree with many as I currently have a compant car i3 so after 12 months i do see the difference between advertised and real hence i ordered the REX - so i have a backup when the battery fails me. You are 100% correct in that the difference in winter is huge and can be as mush as 40% less range than summer and you definitly cant drain to zero (6% on i3). I get 140 electric best case in ecopro+ mode and 80-90 in winter as an example
At the moment the range seems to be going up around 50miles a year as new models come out so see what happens. The cars with decent range for me such as i-pace and upcoming audi etc are super expensive.
johnd
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:58 am

Post by johnd »

@haf63: Apologies, didn't realise you were already an experienced EV owner - and so you know all this stuff already.

I hope I'm proved wrong :) but I do wonder if the XC40 FEV (full EV) will get to 200 miles winter/motorway range. I know the CMA has been designed with FEV capability in mind, but are they really going to be able to stuff a battery of more than 70-80kWh in the relatively limited space? That said, the Kona, which is smaller still, manages to take 64kWh. But as above I'm concerned that XC40 aerodynamics will hit the higher speed efficiency.

My guess would be 250 miles EPA and then 170-180miles winter/motorway. But we should know more in eg 12 months' time, once there are some real-world tests out there.
haf63
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:46 pm

Post by haf63 »

Interesting that Kia niro ev is a suv with some 280 miles official range - best i can see for the price - but hard to say how it stacks up on tech/safety/reliability and all the other important stuff
johnd
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:58 am

Post by johnd »

E-Niro is essentially the same car as the Kona - or at least the same chassis, drivetrain etc, but with a slightly longer/larger body and different dash layout. There's quite an informative review of the Kona from FCS at:



Of course it's a class below XC40 in both size and premium-ness and only has a single (front) motor and so is not 4WD but otherwise I'd be thinking seriously about this as a buy (though the long wait time isn't too appealing).
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